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Post by Elgen on Dec 12, 2010 22:20:08 GMT
So, what do we at Illusionaria think? Is this going to be even more "casual gamer-friendly", or are Bethesda going to learn from previous mistakes?
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Post by webster52402 on Dec 12, 2010 23:34:36 GMT
Well, they haven't made very many mistakes in my eyes thus far. They cut out a lot of the 'run here, there, and everywhere, and listen to people talk for hours' bit that I hated out of Morrowind for Oblivion, made the skills actually mean something - I could never balance my Morrowind character right... - made wonderful graphics leaps forward, improved voice acting considerably - no more of that simpering 'Nerevarine' bullocks - made exploring genuinely interesting... I'd say they've already improved greatly.
However, I have no doubt that they shall continue to refine themselves beautifully. Plus the insinuation of Dragons (SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!) being included is enough to sell me right there.
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Post by DarkNova50 on Dec 13, 2010 4:52:40 GMT
Webster 'squee'-ing...huh.
Isn't this the part where the ground opens up and an undead legion of the damned comes spilling out?
Also, just watched the announcement video...very impressive. Gotta break me one of them dragons and use it for a mount.
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Post by Vrek on Dec 13, 2010 7:43:30 GMT
Wait wait wait, Web: Voice Acting, though nice for a few seconds, seems more to me like a waste. Half of the games data was voice acting, yes? They still had limited voice actors, only around thirty, so you got hungry hobo speaking in posh upper-middle classman voice half the time. And they spent so god damned much of their budget on big name voices, one of whom died four minutes into the game. If they must have voices, I hope to god they spend it on three times as much voice actors, and ignore the god damned celebrities. Plus, with the addition of voice acting, they cut down on the flavor text. I for one liked reading everything.
And exploration? I loved exploring in Morrowind; so many nuances in every area. Oblivion seemed so bland next to it. There were a few interesting bits, I admit. Like the first Aylied Ruin right outside where you exit the sewers at the start. Had some pretty cool stuff there. That house you have to break into to join the Theives Guild, had some neat stuff about the vampiric plants. But so little of it is memorable. Most Aylied ruins are too samey, same with crypts, and quite a few caves. So much less to make it interesting.
And then, Oblivion just dropped the very interesting lore aspect for a generic fantasy game. Cyrodill is supposed to be a giant jungle, populated by rice eating Chinese/Romans, instead we get generic fantasy land. And instead of keeping with the much more interesting spheres of the Daedric Princes, we get Fire and Brimstone hell.
Plus, I didn't like Oblivion's leveling system. Eventually, everyone has Daedric weapons. When everyone's special, no one is.
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Post by webster52402 on Dec 13, 2010 8:19:46 GMT
Actually, your first point about the voice actors was mostly due to a glitch on Bethesda's part... The hobos talking in a different voice - and even switching voices schizophrenically - was because they didn't code the references back to the voices well enough. So yes, it was a bit jarring to have them suddenly switch up voices. However, they have proven to us that they ARE capable of some interesting voices - Fallout 3 and Vegas (Except those [censored] NCR troopers! No, I don't want a nuclear winter, shut up!) both had wonderful voice acting. Of course the size of the game inflated from 4.5 GB in Oblivion to 10 GB in New Vegas, but with people boasting 1 TB hard drives now, that's less imposing than it could be. Flavor can be made up for by making what the character's say actually fun, rather than wordily describing their voices as they're speaking.
And I personally HATED exploring in Morrowind. There was a lot of space to explore, but not enough to fill that space. There were little caverns here and there with a few skeletons inside maybe, but the pieces I enjoyed the most - the Ruins - were far and few between. If you look at Oblivion's map however...
There are DOZENS of the things. No matter where you look, there is something else interesting just a stone's throw away, and you can usually guarantee that you're going to find something unique, a side quest, or a ton of such valuable loot that you'll be chuckling like a mad man. Not so in Morrowind. I found myself wandering around more often than not just trying to advance the main storyline because the dungeon crawling was just too dim.
As for the lore, I admit I really couldn't care less. I don't play a game for the lore behind it: I play a game for its entertainment value, general appeal, and ease of play. And I don't mean 'ease of play' like 'make a game easy!'. I mean 'ease of play' like 'Difficulty should not be because the skills are so unbalanced, whereas a person running another skillset breezes through everything' way. There was still plenty of lore to be had in Oblivion, and it was interesting enough, but it took the place that lore should: The side.
As for the leveling system... Well, I agree with you partially. The leveling system did have many flaws to work out, and I did get tired of it very quickly when I learned that quickly leveling yourself up to higher ground - where normally this would be a good tactic - was a good way to get yourself buttraped by a Daedroth and eaten if you didn't know what you were doing. However the implemented skills and basic statistics did work much better than Morrowind's. If they refine the system and make it more like Fallout's - which is an absolute gem in my eyes - then you could have a very good, very efficient system to work with.
But this all is just my opinion of course... *Shrugs*
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Post by Elgen on Dec 13, 2010 11:02:21 GMT
What Vrek said.
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Post by shadow666 on Dec 13, 2010 11:53:46 GMT
I knew it would be Skyrim! but besides that, if they learn from some of the mistakes from both games they can truely create a medium between the two. The dragon bit made me raise an eyebrow, mainly because we don't know if these are the tigerfolk in akavir who wanted to become dragons or the original ones that 'died out' but telling from the teaser its the later. Obviously im going to pick a Nord for this almost screams for it. but lets hope they dont dont make this redguard and turn it full action/adventure.. that would make the rpers very pissy.. other than that i really want to see werebears and werewolves running wild too.. its Skyrim for fs!
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Post by DarkNova50 on Dec 14, 2010 4:23:22 GMT
You know, I just took the liberty of refreshing my memory concerning dragons in the Elder Scrolls universe. If Skyrim is focused upon a group of dragons that are going apocalyptic on everybody, we're going to feel really stupid for killing so many of their natural predators back in Morrowind.
Who would have ever thought we'd need the cliffracers!?
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Post by Elgen on Dec 14, 2010 6:20:01 GMT
Really? Cliff racers battle dragons? I guess they could if you had like one thousand million million cliff racers...
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Post by shadow666 on Dec 14, 2010 6:42:47 GMT
well we will never know now!
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Post by Elgen on Dec 14, 2010 11:35:47 GMT
Battle Arena: Cliff Racer versus Dragon
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Post by FC4 on Dec 14, 2010 16:22:54 GMT
Really? Cliff racers battle dragons? I guess they could if you had like one thousand million million cliff racers... Which Morrowind seemed to actually have, or used too... What I want to know is how this is going to work with what we know of the Empire's relations with Dragons. Having a dragon as the seal, and once having a dragon as their own agent, I'm curious as to what this is going to result in. Honestly, I would have preferred the Falmer returning rather than dragons... As for the gameplay, God please don't let them make it casual gamer again. I liked Oblivion's combat and some of the magic (did make it seem too easy to cast spells though) but the lore sucked and the land was not what it should have been. I got jipped. Cyrodiil is supposed to be bigger than the Iliac bay, so why is there more land in Daggerfall than Oblivion? And they could do away with voice acting for all I care. Morrowind had enough. So, basically, I agree with Vrek; if they do like they did in Oblivion, and further dumb it down, it's just NOT an ES game anymore, just another generic rpg. And yes to Werewolves and bears. EDIT: They better, oh they better, make dragons well, and not just the generic fantasy badass giant lizard. If I can give dragons character for a roleplay, I'm sure they can make them interesting.
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Post by DarkNova50 on Dec 14, 2010 16:30:18 GMT
I definitely agree that they made Oblivion a little too casual for my tastes. One of the things I loved about Morrowind was that they gave you this awesome fantasy setting as a playground, and said "Go out there and do whatever the hell you want."
In Oblivion, they tried appealing to a much broader audience. Too many NPCs were non-killable. It was too easy to find legendary weapons and armour. And the level scaling bullshit? Ugh...
The things I thought that Oblivion improved on was the physical controls of the game. Combat, magic use, movement and jumping...all of these were much better. Pretty much everything else was inferior, compared to Morrowind.
But I've seen alot of these concerns voiced on the official forums. With any luck, Bethesda will work to make their long time fans happy.
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Post by shadow666 on Dec 15, 2010 2:09:55 GMT
Pst Nova? just a little heads up we are waiting for you when you are free xD.
that aside, Im hoping that they do decide to realise their mistakes they made to oblivion.. because making it for a broader spectrum is nice, but if you screw around your fanbase, then you will lose alot of money in the future. And they are the ones they should try to appease. But i can see them removing the entire RPG aspect of the game, almost like they were doing with Fallout.. I swear if they make Skyrim like Redguard i am going to have to try and bring dagon into this world..
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Post by Vrek on Dec 15, 2010 6:54:16 GMT
I got jipped. Cyrodiil is supposed to be bigger than the Iliac bay, so why is there more land in Daggerfall than Oblivion? Dude... Physical limitations, that's why. Most of Daggerfall is procedurally generated. Plus it uses a much less intensive engine. Everything in Oblivion was hand placed, and requires a lot more processing power then anything in Daggerfall. That's why Daggerfall could have a map as large as a good portion of Europe, but Oblivion can't. Sometimes you just have to accept these things. Also, didn't Jiub drive the cliffracers from Morrowind? So logically they'd have to go somewhere else. I can only pray that Skyrim's main quest involves taming cliffracers and leading them against the dragons. That, or the dragons are invading from Akavir. The Tiger-Dragon already made it clear that he intends to invade Tamriel.
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